• Some thoughts on Desktop Environments


    MATE is too new?
    It’s been around since 2011, and it’s base ( Gnome2) has been around from 2002 till 2010.
    Do some better research before posting such ridiculous statements.
    J.

  • IMO Gnome is absolutely terrible. There’s a reason so many other users didn’t like Gnome that major distros forked it to create their own DE’s like Cinnamon/Mate. Gnome only continues to flourish, and in fact has become the default which is a real pity, because of RedHat’s clout.

    Its a DE designed for a phone yet installed on pc’s by mostly power users. The developers are famously anti-user and refuse to listen to any feedback, they love removing features and telling people that their way is the only way. Worse than that, they remove the options to customize things from the libs so that no one else can add it back.

    You install Gnome, you get a pretty desktop with no functionality and you need to install a hundred extensions, each of which can break the system or be incompatible with others. And even then it won’t approach the functionality KDE (or hell, Gnome2) had years ago. All of this uses at least 2x the resources of KDE, which has about 3x the features.

    There is such a thing as focusing on writing good code, making sure its optimized, and testing on all kinds of systems including old, slow pc’s - these are concepts Gnome doesn’t seem to be aware of.

    The only thing I see Gnome doing better is some visual consistency in its apps, but that’s not hard when you have such limited features and the apps keep removing functions. And they have better Wayland support.

    When you think about the fact that they have so many paid engineers working on it whereas KDE etc are volunteers working for free, its amazing just how bad Gnome is.

  • Some very good points.

    Start working on a Plasma “lite”, and I’ll be happy to try it.

    GM

  • @defc said in Some thoughts on Desktop Environments:

    IMO Gnome is absolutely terrible. There’s a reason so many other users didn’t like Gnome that major distros forked it to create their own DE’s like Cinnamon/Mate. Gnome only continues to flourish, and in fact has become the default which is a real pity, because of RedHat’s clout.

    Its a DE designed for a phone yet installed on pc’s by mostly power users. The developers are famously anti-user and refuse to listen to any feedback, they love removing features and telling people that their way is the only way. Worse than that, they remove the options to customize things from the libs so that no one else can add it back.

    You install Gnome, you get a pretty desktop with no functionality and you need to install a hundred extensions, each of which can break the system or be incompatible with others. And even then it won’t approach the functionality KDE (or hell, Gnome2) had years ago. All of this uses at least 2x the resources of KDE, which has about 3x the features.

    There is such a thing as focusing on writing good code, making sure its optimized, and testing on all kinds of systems including old, slow pc’s - these are concepts Gnome doesn’t seem to be aware of.

    The only thing I see Gnome doing better is some visual consistency in its apps, but that’s not hard when you have such limited features and the apps keep removing functions. And they have better Wayland support.

    When you think about the fact that they have so many paid engineers working on it whereas KDE etc are volunteers working for free, its amazing just how bad Gnome is.

    I have two big problems with Gnome:

    1. The extension system is flawed for two reasons: 1. You need a browser addon to make it work, which is downright insane, and Gnome developers do not take any exensions in account when updating the core program. With the POSSIBLE exception of Dash to Dock, which has basically became a defacto standard.
    2. Gnome eats about twice as much resources as it should for no other eason than inefficient coding. Memory leak aside, that is.

    As someone who actually deliberately switched from Plasma to Gnome (I can’t stand Cinnamon and Budgie) I can definitely say that the OS work very well if you are willing to unlearn Windows habits. It is a valid design for a desktop OS even without extensions. I only use three: Removal of the hot corners, adding the Places menu (but keeping the Activities link at the top left instead of an app menu) and Dash to Dock.

  • @snailbeard said in Some thoughts on Desktop Environments:

    @defc said in Some thoughts on Desktop Environments:

    IMO Gnome is absolutely terrible. There’s a reason so many other users didn’t like Gnome that major distros forked it to create their own DE’s like Cinnamon/Mate. Gnome only continues to flourish, and in fact has become the default which is a real pity, because of RedHat’s clout.

    Its a DE designed for a phone yet installed on pc’s by mostly power users. The developers are famously anti-user and refuse to listen to any feedback, they love removing features and telling people that their way is the only way. Worse than that, they remove the options to customize things from the libs so that no one else can add it back.

    You install Gnome, you get a pretty desktop with no functionality and you need to install a hundred extensions, each of which can break the system or be incompatible with others. And even then it won’t approach the functionality KDE (or hell, Gnome2) had years ago. All of this uses at least 2x the resources of KDE, which has about 3x the features.

    There is such a thing as focusing on writing good code, making sure its optimized, and testing on all kinds of systems including old, slow pc’s - these are concepts Gnome doesn’t seem to be aware of.

    The only thing I see Gnome doing better is some visual consistency in its apps, but that’s not hard when you have such limited features and the apps keep removing functions. And they have better Wayland support.

    When you think about the fact that they have so many paid engineers working on it whereas KDE etc are volunteers working for free, its amazing just how bad Gnome is.

    I have two big problems with Gnome:

    1. The extension system is flawed for two reasons: 1. You need a browser addon to make it work, which is downright insane, and Gnome developers do not take any exensions in account when updating the core program. With the POSSIBLE exception of Dash to Dock, which has basically became a defacto standard.
    2. Gnome eats about twice as much resources as it should for no other eason than inefficient coding. Memory leak aside, that is.

    As someone who actually deliberately switched from Plasma to Gnome (I can’t stand Cinnamon and Budgie) I can definitely say that the OS work very well if you are willing to unlearn Windows habits. It is a valid design for a desktop OS even without extensions. I only use three: Removal of the hot corners, adding the Places menu (but keeping the Activities link at the top left instead of an app menu) and Dash to Dock.

    Good points for sure.

    Your #1 - agreed fully. I would add Tweaks & Dconf to the list of “frankenstein” settings control center.

    Your #2 - would like to agree, however a user, not a coder.

    Also using Gnome, and with a few extensions, the environment is easily a viable desktop choice. Current Antergos Gnome has been very good. Every function works as advertised, and without even a single crash (over two weeks).

    For my preferences, I’d truely consider Plasma upon a “lite” release without Kapps.

    GM

  • Looks like GNOME is removing more features.

    I don’t understand the technical reasons and the rationale behind these decisions, but apparently some people are not liking them(comment section).

    Well, it’s not my problem anymore, I’m not using GNOME right now.

  • I agree with the point that KDE has improved a lot. I tried to use it multiple times as main DE years ago, but it never satisfied me. But KDE plasma and the way Antergos implements it pleases me completely!

    Interesting topic!

  • @ssspacez said in Some thoughts on Desktop Environments:

    Looks like GNOME is removing more features.

    I don’t understand the technical reasons and the rationale behind these decisions, but apparently some people are not liking them(comment section).

    Well, it’s not my problem anymore, I’m not using GNOME right now.

    This shows the thought process of Gnome in general - their definition of simplicity is removing features and they don’t really bother thinking how it will affect users.

    Its funny that this particular decision was then reversed as you can see here - https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/nautilus/merge_requests/229 - by the same developer who removed the feature. Because it affected some enterprise use cases, which they can’t afford to affect.

    But there are plenty of features Gnome has removed without any logical reason, just like this.

  • Gnome before their Shell variant also used to have a preview feature for audio (and video too I think) in Nautilus. It was really neat, but also that got removed in Shell. KDE Plasma seems to have it but I never have gotten it to work, but I didn’t really put effort into it yet either.

    It’s funny for me how I used to be really attached to Gnome and wouldn’t want anything else, even though I really wanted to like KDE. But that has drastically changed. I just hope KDE will keep making the right decisions and leave the choice up to its users.

  • Gnome is already known that long ago has problems, kde also has them, now well; a monster like a gnome, I do not think it will be a long time until he gets back to what he really was. It’s just a personal look, as far as I’m concerned today, I prefer minimalism.

  • @earthmind said in Some thoughts on Desktop Environments:

    I just hope KDE will keep making the right decisions and leave the choice up to its users.

    That was beautiful 🙂
    And it should be the philosophy behind the minds of FOSS developers; “leave the choice up to its users”

    Portergos site
    https://github.com/Portergos/portergos-iso

    Still in love with Antergos (default OS)
    I3wm

    Linux newbie since 06/2016

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