• Why ZFS when no LAMP server


    I’m new… excuse my ignorance to Antergos. But can’t quite understand why ZFS is used on a system that doesn’t seem to cater to server use. I’ve searched for a distro that can match the ease of use that Mint 18.2 has and also supports ZFS.

    I host my own websites, and also have a cloud. Formerly a Solaris user for over 18 years, ZFS was one of the best things to happen at Sun Microsystems. Suddenly a power failure was easily recoverable with no user intervention. Now later in my career the servers and possible mirroring to provide data integrity is the driving force in seeking a ZFS distro with the software I need easily available.

    With BTRFS easily available, and nearly as robust as ZFS I can’t quite understand why Antergos went to ZFS… something that requires a lot of RAM to work efficiently.

    Help me understand!

  • @dhenzler said in Why ZFS when no LAMP server:

    ZFS

    in my opinion it is more a question why users requesting ZFS-support ;)

    And this caused by speed, file security, reliability, scalability.
    But for me this is all questionable because ZFS is a module outside the kernel and caus of this all the advantages are not fully true…

    [updates once a week] = [90% less problems]
    [Li{u}n//u//{i}x] since 1988 - overcoming failure means success
    howto-install-antergos
    how to add system logs
    i3 GNOME

  • @joekamprad said in Why ZFS when no LAMP server:

    in my opinion it is more a question why users requesting ZFS-support

    BTRFS has been buggy in the past, mainly because it’s still new. Having said that, I think that it has come to linux to stay and be a real ZFS replacement. But it’s not there yet.

    And yes, users asked for ZFS support. We checked and it wasn’t difficult to add it (but maintaining it has been another thing). We only added for “expert” users, so it’s maintenance is user’s work, not ours (we barely know how to setup it, as we @developers don’t use it on a regular basis).

    All in all, it’s a pity that it can’t be added into the linux kernel because of copyright issues, but that I think it’s the main reason that btrfs was created.

    Cheers!

    P.S. I’ve been thinking to add an automatic installation using BTRFS, like Fedora does. Maybe some day…

  • @karasu said:

    it’s a pity that it can’t be added into the linux kernel because of copyright issues

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/04/12/bundling_zfs_and_linux_is_impossible_says_richard_stallman/

  • I use ZFS in Minecraft or media server type situations.

  • @karasu said in Why ZFS when no LAMP server:

    @joekamprad said in Why ZFS when no LAMP server:

    in my opinion it is more a question why users requesting ZFS-support

    BTRFS has been buggy in the past, mainly because it’s still new. Having said that, I think that it has come to linux to stay and be a real ZFS replacement. But it’s not there yet.

    And yes, users asked for ZFS support. We checked and it wasn’t difficult to add it (but maintaining it has been another thing). We only added for “expert” users, so it’s maintenance is user’s work, not ours (we barely know how to setup it, as we @developers don’t use it on a regular basis).

    All in all, it’s a pity that it can’t be added into the linux kernel because of copyright issues, but that I think it’s the main reason that btrfs was created.

    Cheers!

    P.S. I’ve been thinking to add an automatic installation using BTRFS, like Fedora does. Maybe some day…

    I am after server performance. Understand that BTRFS is coming along, but for mirroring and speed ZFS is a winner, and time proven performer. I’ve run ZFS for the past several years and didn’t even know it. Solaris has had it for some time. Big thing I noticed was I stopped having problems after power outages. System came back to life flawlessly every time. Now of course my needs are more for speed, and my big server has 32GB of RAM so ZFS would perform well.

    I have spent the past few hours trying to get XAMP running. Compared to Mint 18.2 the installation of packages isn’t as easy. LAMP-SERVER in Mint goes in wtih just one command, and asks for mysql server password. phpmyadmin does the same only asking which server you are using and password for mysql.

    I think the boys should take a good hard look at the future of the web, and get LAMP working… with Wordpress and Nextcloud running rampant the uses are high and growing… I left Solaris because I had to screw with the minusha of config files… no more for me… that should be automatic.

    Dave

  • @dhenzler said in Why ZFS when no LAMP server:

    I think the boys should take a good hard look at the future of the web, and get LAMP working… with Wordpress and Nextcloud running rampant the uses are high and growing… I left Solaris because I had to screw with the minusha of config files… no more for me… that should be automatic.

    fyi, If you install base (intended for servers and expert users) there are two options (we call them features) called LAMP (which uses Apache) and LEMP (which uses NGINX). Sadly, we haven’t got time to port these features to other installations (when a DE is chosen). Moreover, I haven’t tested it for a long time, so it might well be broken atm.

    But I agree this should be automatic even in an already installed system. Maybe we could create a package called antergos-lamp that did all this? (and if it works, create an antergos-lemp, too).

    What do you think?

  • That would be great… I stopped using Solaris 11 because every new release had “exciting” new config setups that wasted hours to read about & deploy. I like technology but it’s not my ONLY hobby. Like enjoying some time away from the keyboard doing many other things called life.

    I downloaded and burned the iOS for this distro. Never thought to read about developers etc. Send me a link and I’ll check it out

  • On a slightly different subject…

    Directory structure… it seems that Antergos has used the OLD Unix directory structure. While most of the other distros have gone to a newer standard, (not BSD)
    This greatly impacts the migration from using /usr to /opt (optional). For instance, I’m used to finding the Apache2 config files in /etc/apache2 folder, and apache2 in the /usr/apache2/2.2/bin. I’m used to invoking apache2 with apachectl command which can be issued from anywhere as root. This infers that the commands are “available” to users because of their location.

    Although I am drawn to Antergos because of ZFS, these other issues drive me to settle for BTRFS on a Mint 18.2 system, and love it for it’s ease of use. I realize also that a radical change may drive away some of your followers. But it may also give you a completely NEW set of followers from other (Red Hat based) distros.

  • @dhenzler said in Why ZFS when no LAMP server:

    these other issues drive me to settle for BTRFS on a Mint 18.2 system

    You can, in advanced mode, use BTRFS, but it’s not as flexible as it should. You can always use gparted first and then tell cnchi (also in advanced mode) where to install.

    Having said, that, it’s been ages that I wanted to create an “automatic” installation on BTRFS… I hope I can do it soon enough.

  • Troubles continue…
    I’ve about given up on using Antergos as my server. Too many little issues remain unresolved. I will go into the more serous one here, but you may contact me directly to get the full story as there is much to tell.

    XAMP won’t run due to a MySQL database issue. Unlike the MySQL installations in Solaris or Mint it doesn’t respond to the same commands. Why?

    • Unable to get MySQLd running. Went to web for hints. But still came up empty. I traced the problem back to a file /var/lib/mysql/ZFS.err
    [[email protected] mysql]# cat ZFS.err
    171114 06:03:54 mysqld_safe Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /var/lib/mysql
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] /usr/bin/mysqld (mysqld 10.1.28-MariaDB) starting as process 20186 ...
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] InnoDB: innodb_empty_free_list_algorithm has been changed to legacy because of small buffer pool size. In order to use backoff, increase buffer pool at least up to 20MB.
    
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] InnoDB: Using mutexes to ref count buffer pool pages
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] InnoDB: The InnoDB memory heap is disabled
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] InnoDB: Mutexes and rw_locks use GCC atomic builtins
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] InnoDB: GCC builtin __atomic_thread_fence() is used for memory barrier
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] InnoDB: Compressed tables use zlib 1.2.11
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] InnoDB: Using Linux native AIO
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] InnoDB: Using generic crc32 instructions
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] InnoDB: Initializing buffer pool, size = 128.0M
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] InnoDB: Completed initialization of buffer pool
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] InnoDB: Highest supported file format is Barracuda.
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] InnoDB: The log sequence number 0 in ibdata file do not match the log sequence number 1600607 in the ib_logfiles!
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] InnoDB: Restoring possible half-written data pages from the doublewrite buffer...
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] InnoDB: 128 rollback segment(s) are active.
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] InnoDB: Waiting for purge to start
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] InnoDB:  Percona XtraDB (http://www.percona.com) 5.6.36-82.2 started; log sequence number 1600607
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139885807937280 [Note] InnoDB: Dumping buffer pool(s) not yet started
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] Plugin 'FEEDBACK' is disabled.
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [ERROR] Could not open mysql.plugin table. Some plugins may be not loaded
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] Recovering after a crash using mysql-bin
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] Starting crash recovery...
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] Crash recovery finished.
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451923712 [Warning] Failed to load slave replication state from table mysql.gtid_slave_pos: 1146: Table 'mysql.gtid_slave_pos' doesn't exist
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [ERROR] Can't open and lock privilege tables: Table 'mysql.servers' doesn't exist
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [Note] Server socket created on IP: '::'.
    2017-11-14  6:03:55 139886451994560 [ERROR] Fatal error: Can't open and lock privilege tables: Table 'mysql.user' doesn't exist
    171114 06:03:55 mysqld_safe mysqld from pid file /var/lib/mysql/ZFS.pid ended
    171114 06:22:04 mysqld_safe Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /var/lib/mysql
    2017-11-14  6:22:04 139997855236032 [Note] /usr/bin/mysqld (mysqld 10.1.28-MariaDB) starting as process 8328 ...
    2017-11-14  6:22:04 139997855236032 [Note] InnoDB: innodb_empty_free_list_algorithm has been changed to legacy because of small buffer pool size. In order to use backoff, increase buffer pool at least up to 20MB.
    
    2017-11-14  6:22:04 139997855236032 [Note] InnoDB: Using mutexes to ref count buffer pool pages
    2017-11-14  6:22:04 139997855236032 [Note] InnoDB: The InnoDB memory heap is disabled
    2017-11-14  6:22:04 139997855236032 [Note] InnoDB: Mutexes and rw_locks use GCC atomic builtins
    2017-11-14  6:22:04 139997855236032 [Note] InnoDB: GCC builtin __atomic_thread_fence() is used for memory barrier
    2017-11-14  6:22:04 139997855236032 [Note] InnoDB: Compressed tables use zlib 1.2.11
    2017-11-14  6:22:04 139997855236032 [Note] InnoDB: Using Linux native AIO
    2017-11-14  6:22:04 139997855236032 [Note] InnoDB: Using generic crc32 instructions
    2017-11-14  6:22:04 139997855236032 [Note] InnoDB: Initializing buffer pool, size = 128.0M
    2017-11-14  6:22:04 139997855236032 [Note] InnoDB: Completed initialization of buffer pool
    2017-11-14  6:22:04 139997855236032 [Note] InnoDB: Highest supported file format is Barracuda.
    2017-11-14  6:22:04 139997855236032 [Note] InnoDB: The log sequence number 1600627 in ibdata file do not match the log sequence number 1600637 in the ib_logfiles!
    2017-11-14  6:22:04 139997855236032 [Note] InnoDB: Restoring possible half-written data pages from the doublewrite buffer...
    2017-11-14  6:22:04 139997855236032 [Note] InnoDB: 128 rollback segment(s) are active.
    2017-11-14  6:22:04 139997855236032 [Note] InnoDB: Waiting for purge to start
    2017-11-14  6:22:04 139997855236032 [Note] InnoDB:  Percona XtraDB (http://www.percona.com) 5.6.36-82.2 started; log sequence number 1600637
    2017-11-14  6:22:05 139997211178752 [Note] InnoDB: Dumping buffer pool(s) not yet started
    2017-11-14  6:22:05 139997855236032 [Note] Plugin 'FEEDBACK' is disabled.
    2017-11-14  6:22:05 139997855236032 [ERROR] Could not open mysql.plugin table. Some plugins may be not loaded
    2017-11-14  6:22:05 139997855236032 [ERROR] mysqld: File './mysql-bin.000003' not found (Errcode: 13 "Permission denied")
    2017-11-14  6:22:05 139997855236032 [ERROR] Failed to open log (file './mysql-bin.000003', errno 13)
    2017-11-14  6:22:05 139997855236032 [ERROR] Could not open log file
    2017-11-14  6:22:05 139997855236032 [ERROR] Can't init tc log
    2017-11-14  6:22:05 139997855236032 [ERROR] Aborting
    
    171114 06:22:07 mysqld_safe mysqld from pid file /var/lib/mysql/ZFS.pid ended
    171114 06:23:03 mysqld_safe Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /var/lib/mysql
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [Note] /usr/bin/mysqld (mysqld 10.1.28-MariaDB) starting as process 8735 ...
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [Note] InnoDB: innodb_empty_free_list_algorithm has been changed to legacy because of small buffer pool size. In order to use backoff, increase buffer pool at least up to 20MB.
    
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [Note] InnoDB: Using mutexes to ref count buffer pool pages
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [Note] InnoDB: The InnoDB memory heap is disabled
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [Note] InnoDB: Mutexes and rw_locks use GCC atomic builtins
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [Note] InnoDB: GCC builtin __atomic_thread_fence() is used for memory barrier
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [Note] InnoDB: Compressed tables use zlib 1.2.11
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [Note] InnoDB: Using Linux native AIO
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [Note] InnoDB: Using generic crc32 instructions
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [Note] InnoDB: Initializing buffer pool, size = 128.0M
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [Note] InnoDB: Completed initialization of buffer pool
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [Note] InnoDB: Highest supported file format is Barracuda.
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [Note] InnoDB: 128 rollback segment(s) are active.
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [Note] InnoDB: Waiting for purge to start
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [Note] InnoDB:  Percona XtraDB (http://www.percona.com) 5.6.36-82.2 started; log sequence number 1600647
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140144954955520 [Note] InnoDB: Dumping buffer pool(s) not yet started
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [Note] Plugin 'FEEDBACK' is disabled.
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [ERROR] Could not open mysql.plugin table. Some plugins may be not loaded
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [ERROR] mysqld: File './mysql-bin.000003' not found (Errcode: 13 "Permission denied")
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [ERROR] Failed to open log (file './mysql-bin.000003', errno 13)
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [ERROR] Could not open log file
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [ERROR] Can't init tc log
    2017-11-14  6:23:03 140145592721344 [ERROR] Aborting
    
    171114 06:23:06 mysqld_safe mysqld from pid file /var/lib/mysql/ZFS.pid ended
    

    It appears more than simple commands will be required to get this resolved.

    • x11vnc doesn’t run unless you invoke it inside a terminal. One use only… if you log out, you have to start another instance. No good for my purposes. I use remote desktop to manage my network servers.

    • Although I loaded the Cinnamon desktop the icons have a different appearance than expected. Makes for a new learning curve

    • I’d suggest you look at https://www.storagecraft.com/blog/install-lamp-server-linux-mint-18-command/ to get an idea of how simple LAMP SERVER and PhpMyAdmin can be.

    I’m always up for a challenge, but this product IMHO is not ready to release.

lamp2 zfs34 Posts 12Views 186
Log in to reply