• Antergos style DE installation from already installed system


    @karasu is involving a method to install all the Antergos Desktops also after initial installation!
    As you can understand this is a hard task!

    But it is already aviable and running!

    This is the place to get information, and inform about any issues you got to enhance it!

    It will be easy like this:

    pacman -S antergos-"DE"-meta
    

    All aviable meta-packages:

    • antergos/antergos-budgie-meta
      Meta package for Antergos Budgie
    • antergos/antergos-cinnamon-meta
      Meta package for Antergos Cinnamon
    • antergos/antergos-deepin-meta
      Meta package for Antergos Deepin
    • antergos/antergos-gnome-meta
      Meta package for Antergos Gnome
    • antergos/antergos-i3-meta
      Meta package for Antergos i3
    • antergos/antergos-kde-meta
      Meta package for Antergos KDE Plasma
    • antergos/antergos-mate-meta
      Meta package for Antergos Mate
    • antergos/antergos-openbox-meta
      Meta package for Antergos Openbox
    • antergos/antergos-xfce-meta
      Meta package for Antergos Xfce

    As far as i can see the standard DE’s (GNOME, KDE, XFCE4, Openbox, Mate, Cinnamon, Deepin) are complete but p.e. i3 is not ready.

    [updates once a week] = [90% less problems]
    [Li{u}n//u//{i}x] since 1988 - overcoming failure means success
    howto-install-antergos
    how to add system logs
    i3 GNOME

  • @joekamprad said in Antergos style DE installation from already installed system:

    antergos-common-meta

    This is to store all “common” packages. Mainly xorg packages. It should be a dependency for all others (it will be).

    Also, antergos-desktop-settings contains all user settings for ALL desktops (they are installed in /etc/skel).

    I’m open to questions/suggestions/changes.

    Cheers!

  • Meta packages simplify a DE installation as whole, and maybe its maintenance.

    They restrict a user’s freedom to fine tune a system as he/she wish.

    Package groups, being more flexible than meta packages, would probably allow to achieve both goals - simplify an installation without sacryfying a user’s freedom of choice.

    Regards

  • @joekamprad said in Antergos style DE installation from already installed system:

    But it is already aviable and running!

    I’ll try it then.

    Antergos (default OS) - WIN10 (abandoned)
    I3wm - Mate desktop
    AMD - A4 7300 Radeon graphics
    16 GB ram
    HD 1 TB
    Linux newbie since 06/2016

  • Meta_packages_and_groups:
    you can uninstall group members without having to remove the entire group. However, you cannot remove meta package dependencies without having to uninstall the meta package itself.

    But:
    The advantage of a meta package, compared to a group, is that any new member packages will be installed when the meta package itself is updated with a new set of dependencies.

    [updates once a week] = [90% less problems]
    [Li{u}n//u//{i}x] since 1988 - overcoming failure means success
    howto-install-antergos
    how to add system logs
    i3 GNOME

  • @joekamprad said in Antergos style DE installation from already installed system:

    … is that any new member packages …

    This means a new user ?
    (Excuse my ignorance)

  • @judd said in Antergos style DE installation from already installed system:

    This means a new user ?

    No, it doesn’t, if I correctly interpret the question. Meta packages and package groups are totally unrelated to user(s).

    A meta package is a very rigid structure. It’s a void package. It only agregates a bunch of other pakages - member packages - by dependencies. It means:

    • if a meta package is upgraded, its upgrade will also upgrade all member pkgs, installed on a user’s system

    • no member pkg may be uninstalled from a user system without breaking meta package dependencies, and (un)installing by breaking deps is a very bad practice.

    • a user cannot select which member pkgs will be installed - meta pkg will install all of them, without exclusion

    A classic Antergos example was antergos-kde-setup meta package. That is why there were posts about the impossibility to cleanly uninstall some (member) pkgs, included in it.

    This post is a fresh example of antergos-cinnamon-meta in action. The user cannot remove pkgs which he don’t want to have in his system. The number of similar posts will only grow.

    A package group is a way more flexible structure. Like a meta package, it’s a void package. It also only agregates a bunch of other pakages - not member packages - but not by dependencies. The aggregation works only during the installation time. It means:

    • all pkgs, installed by a package group, on a user’s computer, remain totally independent one from another and from the packgae group. It’s like if they were installed one by one, independently one from another

    • any package, earlier installed by a package group, may be freely and cleanly removed (uninstalled) later - it doesn’t tied by unneeded dependencies

    • if a package group was installed and later changed in the repo, none of originally installed pkgs will be automatically upgraded on a user’s computer

    • a user may select which package group member pkgs will be installed - package group doesn’t force an installation of all its members.

    Sorry for annoying Arch basics.

  • @just

    Thank you very much

    This is very technical and quite cumbersome, even so I interpret that it is better and more solid a meta package than a group of packages

    Sorry for annoying Arch basics.

    I get it xd)

  • Here’s my two cents to this discussion. :thinking:

    Isn’t this very much a question about what to install and why?

    When we are talking about DE’s, there should be very clear definitions what a DE is, i.e. which packages constitute a DE.

    And, there are package dependencies, that can be required, optional or alternative. Some packages can even be deprecated

    So, a DE definition should consist of a minimum set of required packages.
    Other DE-related packages are mostly optional (you may want to install but not required) or alternative (there are other packages that do about the same thing). Alternative packages can be either required (one of them must be included) or optional.

    These required alternative packages make generation of default configurations much harder, since developers cannot know which alternative the user selects. One solution could be to install all configurations of the alternative packages, too. Another solution would be to install none.

    Next question would be how to define the minimum set of packages for a DE.
    And then, what is the minimum set of packages (including their configurations!) for all DEs.
    I suppose this minimum set of configurations of all DEs is what could be (or planned by @karasu) installed by default, right?

    And the maintenance of the package sets may need lots of work, too.

    It is hard as @joekamprad mentioned.

  • wow that’s so complex. Let me make a simple question though:
    Is it possible to have a sort of antergos_configs.pkg.tar.xz independently from DEs?
    i mean the user being able to choose between installing the vanilla DE and the DE with all antergos configs…
    If user no longer wants antergos config, just uninstall that package and the DE gets back to it’s vanilla state…

    Antergos (default OS) - WIN10 (abandoned)
    I3wm - Mate desktop
    AMD - A4 7300 Radeon graphics
    16 GB ram
    HD 1 TB
    Linux newbie since 06/2016

  • @fernandomaroto
    Would this conflict with user’s possible modifications for a DE?

  • @manuel said in Antergos style DE installation from already installed system:

    @fernandomaroto
    Would this conflict with user’s possible modifications for a DE?

    I don’t know if what i said would be possible, that’s why i asked hehehehe.
    I’m not sure if one user installing/uninstalling would change all users from the system…

    But i guess something else would be needed, because simply uninstalling the package won’t remove the config files from /home folder or reset icons/themes etc…

    Antergos (default OS) - WIN10 (abandoned)
    I3wm - Mate desktop
    AMD - A4 7300 Radeon graphics
    16 GB ram
    HD 1 TB
    Linux newbie since 06/2016

  • The main “problem” on this is the working of “skel” provided by the useradd mechanism:
    The /etc/skel directory is the directory used by useradd to create the default settings in a new user’s home directory.

    So using skel/useradd limiting all this to no way on adding them later after the user is created.

    The second thing is that same configuration files/directories are used by different DE’s in some cases, and other may disturbing…

    So it would be more clean, to use another mechanism to add the needed configurations, also later on installing another DE. But i do not know, what will be needed to do so, may it could be a script.

    [updates once a week] = [90% less problems]
    [Li{u}n//u//{i}x] since 1988 - overcoming failure means success
    howto-install-antergos
    how to add system logs
    i3 GNOME

  • @karasu
    installing openbox meta package gives me some permission errors inside openbox session:

    0_1510523399092_Bildschirmfoto_2017-11-12_22-49-32.png

    pipemenus > obrecent.sh + obpipemenu-places
    = can not be executed, no permissions

    [[email protected] .config]$ ls -l openbox
    insgesamt 44
    -rw-r--r-- 1 test users   157  3. Nov 18:53 autostart
    -rw-r--r-- 1 test users  3776  3. Nov 18:53 menu.xml
    drwxr-xr-x 2 test users  4096 12. Nov 20:48 pipemenus
    -rw-r--r-- 1 test users 29022  3. Nov 18:53 rc.xml
    [[email protected] .config]$ cd openbox/
    [[email protected] openbox]$ ls -l pipemenus/
    insgesamt 8
    -rw-r--r-- 1 test users 2931  3. Nov 18:53 obpipemenu-places
    -rw-r--r-- 1 test users  604  3. Nov 18:53 obrecent.sh
    

    xfce meta package is unthemed, also new created user login with xfce defaults (asking for panel behavior)

    [updates once a week] = [90% less problems]
    [Li{u}n//u//{i}x] since 1988 - overcoming failure means success
    howto-install-antergos
    how to add system logs
    i3 GNOME

  • @fernandomaroto said in Antergos style DE installation from already installed system:

    …If user no longer wants antergos config, just uninstall that package and the DE gets back to it’s vanilla state…

    It would be possible if Antergos was installed in the old way, without meta packages.

    It is possible, if new Cnchi will use pacakge groups instead of meta packages.

    It is not possible now, when Antergos is installed by meta packages.

    An example.

    To install a DE, the old Cnchi was separately installing three packages - A, B, C - which consitute the DE. If a user didn’t like them, it was possible to substitute them with D, E, F packages.

    A new meta package X is created now. It includes the packages A, B, C. The new Cnchi doesn’t install A, B, C separately anymore. Instead, it installs only one package - the X one. The X package, by dependencies, installs A, B, C pkgs.

    The X meta package works like a glue for A, B, C pkgs.

    If A, B, C were installed separately, they may be substituted by D, E, F. But if X is installed after A, B, C were already installed, it re-installs A, B, C again, the second time, and transforms X + A + B + C into a monolithic structure. Without breaking dependencies, A, B, C cannot be replaced by D, E, F anymore.

    None of A, B, C can be removed now, because it will break their ascending depedencies - up to X.

    If X is removed, it will also remove A, B, C, which are X descending dependencies. Because X meta package means a whole DE in the new Cnchi, removing X equals to removing the whole DE.

    All of above have sense only if we don’t want to break the dependencies. If we want to break them, then we can do everything we wish, nullifying the meaning of meta packages.

    None of these complications exist with package groups.

  • @just said in Antergos style DE installation from already installed system:

    None of these complications exist with package groups.

    I’m afraid package groups is not an option, as we can’t repackage everything that needs to be on a group.

    To be honest, I still don’t see if using meta packages is THE solution, or it’s just a bad choice.

  • @karasu said in Antergos style DE installation from already installed system:

    To be honest, I still don’t see if using meta packages is THE solution,…

    Probably I’ve missed some explanation. May I ask to formulate again the problem you’re searching a solution for? Just a few simple words. Thanks.

    Edit

    You’re absolutely right.

    Package groups make much easier end users life, and much harder the life of maintainers.

    Meta packages make much harder end users life, and much easier the life of maintainers and developers.

  • But if i simple uninstall a meta package with:

    pacman -R antergos-cinnamon-meta
    

    It will only uninstall the meta package without installed packages from package install, as far as i can test.

    So it looks like that i can install a new DE with antergos -meta package, and uninstall the meta package after this, will mnake me able to uninstall unwanted packages as i want ???

    [updates once a week] = [90% less problems]
    [Li{u}n//u//{i}x] since 1988 - overcoming failure means success
    howto-install-antergos
    how to add system logs
    i3 GNOME

  • @joekamprad said in Antergos style DE installation from already installed system:

    But if i simple uninstall a meta package with:…

    Yes, surely - thus, breaking all dependencies. Dependencies are as important as packages in Arch. Maybe even more.

    Meta packages goal is to automatically maintain a user’s system consistency, integrity and stability. For a very long time.

    Without a meta package this target is missed. From an ordered and structured, the system becomes a trivial heap of unrelated packages.

  • This was my question😎
    Then after uninstalling the meta package the left “dependencies” will be marked as
    orphans? I need to check this…

    [updates once a week] = [90% less problems]
    [Li{u}n//u//{i}x] since 1988 - overcoming failure means success
    howto-install-antergos
    how to add system logs
    i3 GNOME

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