• Pamac looks great!!


    I confess. I don’t know where it is, this line in the sand that was just now drawn and that separates people from becoming elitists. So, while it is implied it hasn’t been crossed yet, it is also implied it may happen at any time. It’s like a land mine, ready to strike at the slightest provocation.

    And elitist behavior, I completely agree, is something we should not accept. So, because it does not depend on ourselves, but on how others decide to charge us – and I definitely would hate to be seen as a elitist when I advise alternatives – I’ll go and have this discussion somewhere else where critical evaluation of software is not potentially seen as “forgetting about users” or a way to express elitism, but as an actual driving force of open source software development and the betterment of its users. This thread has become suddenly conditioned by the politically correct and the spectre of elitism made to hang over everyone’s head.

  • @ bpoerwo
    On point 5.): I am not pleading for an elitist attitude.
    If pamac would tell, what it is doing (i.e: now performing ‘pacman -Syu’), people would get to know the system better just by using it. Also it would be easier then to detect the reasons of occuring problems.

    I prefer GUIs over command line operations too. I just think, that they should not hide the operations, but help users to learn and understand their system better. I have noticed, that pamac causes me prolems. So now I have a sheet with the essential pacman commands on my desk. It is not more fun to use command lines, it simply is neccessary sometimes.

    On point 3.) Gnucash and QGis are essential for certain tasks. Installing them should not mean to tweak the system. With ubuntu you get them from the repositories. Maybe Arch systems are not meant for serious work.

    Installing a package xy from the AUR via terminal is so simple, that pamac is not worth the problems:

    • create a folder, i.e. ‘aur’
    • open aur.archlinux.org in your web-browser and search for xy
    • download snapshot for package xy to ‘aur’ and extract it
    • download the source file xy.tar.gz to ‘aur’
    • run makepkg in ‘aur’ to create xy.pkg.tar
    • install xy.pkg.tar with 'sudo pacman -U xy.pkg.tar
      .

    It is so simple, that I have not the slightest idea, which advantage I could get from yaourt or pacour.
    Pamac somehow creates a mystery of doing complicated things for you, that in reality are much simpler than the problems you have to solve, if you use pamac.
    To browse packages tkpacman is a much lighter alternative. For notifications kalu is much more informative.

  • @Krugar said in Pamac looks great!!:

    somewhere else where critical evaluation of software is not potentially seen as “forgetting about users” or a way to express elitism

    @Krugar do not take everything toooo serious! What you write I would never call elitist!!, critics are welcome!!!

  • Is this thread about Pamac or about “elitism” in the forum?
    J.

  • @Jeannie____ My last one was about moderation.

  • It was certainly not my intention to be political correct, I do understand the technical users point of view and I applaud them. Without you Linux would be non useable for the likes of me. (God knows how often posts from power users like you lot helped me out)
    I didn’t draw a line between users, but I was simply pointing out that not everybody is a technical user. I certainly didn’t mean that no one can critisize over here, after all this is a forum.

  • @bpoerwo

    I didn’t draw a line between users, but I was simply pointing out that not everybody is a technical user. I certainly didn’t mean that no one can critisize over here, after all this is a forum.

    I was actually more concerned with a moderator reaction to your post that addressed that very specific issue of elitism, thus seemingly validating such concern about this thread. It wasn’t so much your words that bothered me. Even if I think the last part of your post was an unwarranted warning since nothing even remotely close to that was happening, I ignored it, until somehow it seemed to become validated.

    Back to the issue, my main concern with tools like pamac is addressed very well by @Xaver last post. These type of problems go away as soon as pamac is developed to be a more informative tool with a wider reach that can truly help linux and Arch newcomers alike. And it is in this context that I question the grounds for calling a user-friendly improvement a version that the only thing it did was to introduce icons. What I am trying to do is to contribute to raise user critical sense to work to their advantage and guide developers to build ever better software, while denouncing misguided/misinformed praise as a more than likely a vehicle for bad software. By no means I am trying to be an elitist, or as I jokingly said previously, a miserable old git.

  • @Krugar I can not agree more to this !!!
    The “Software Center” is one of the main reason for users to like Linux.
    And it would be best to have this open as possible to show what actually is done and happen in the background!

  • @Xaver said in Pamac looks great!!:

    Reading all these enthusiastic comments on the new pamac design I wonder, why no one issues the functional problems of pamac.

    Like @just i don’t use pamac to install or update, i use to look package description, dependencies, installed files because i’m usually to lazy to type pacman -Si pactree etc etc.

    I agree with you all reporting those problems.
    One very annoying to me is pamac hanging like 30s to 1min when first launched. (maybe was fixed now? i will update my system only next friday)

  • I totally agree with almost everyone. Ain’t this debate about the one thing to really love about linux, that you can choose freely at any point. No linux will force you to use pamac, or pacman, or yaourt, or octopi or other distros package management tools (unlike other popular operating systems). I too use octopi (would like to use pamac but it’s horrible on Qt) to find stuff quickly just because I find it more convenient than pacman -Ssq whatever (which I do issue as well). You can get more details faster in a visually pleasant manner IMHO.
    That being said the thread is about the looks and not pamac itself actually and I can only find the app icons to be anything new apart from the sorting. Both make it much more software center like and most probably very appealing to people who don’t like the command line.
    I do think like Jeannie___ though, to me it looks completely out of place (on Qt) for not drawing the system decorations.

  • This post is deleted!
  • As others have pointed out, there are issues with pamac, and I too only use it as a quick reference for searching available packages, but prefer to use the terminal to install, update, and routine package maintenance. Arch will be so much easier and give you less headaches in the long run if you learn package maintenance via the terminal. I think pamac is a good tool to bridge new users into using the CLI though.

  • @triode13, If you are not using pamac to install or upgrade packages, but only as a search tool, you may want to take a look at pkgbrowser, which I believe does a better job at that and was designed exactly just for this task.

    alt text

  • @Krugar, I’ve never heard of pkgbrowser before. It’s perfect. Thank You!

  • @fernandomaroto said in Pamac looks great!!:

    One very annoying to me is pamac hanging like 30s to 1min when first launched. (maybe was fixed now?

    So far it seems to be😀. (at least in my case that is).

  • @Keegan said in Pamac looks great!!:

    @fernandomaroto said in Pamac looks great!!:

    One very annoying to me is pamac hanging like 30s to 1min when first launched. (maybe was fixed now?

    So far it seems to be😀. (at least in my case that is).

    yes, in my VM is much faster! I kinda find it alien too, but i’m getting used to it…

  • @joekamprad said in Pamac looks great!!:

    (i like it a lot, when the build output rush over the screen, this is pure meditation!!!)

    You, too? And building an entire OS from sources is darn near orgasmic! :D

  • @c00ter 😁 go install gentoo! ⬛

  • @c00ter said in Pamac looks great!!:

    And building an entire OS from sources is darn near orgasmic!

    And you wonder why I love building Antergos Deepin😄.

  • @fernandomaroto said in Pamac looks great!!:

    I kinda find it alien too, but i’m getting used to it…

    Same here, it’s different, but better😀.

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