• Is Antergos openrc (nosystemd) really wanted or necessary?


    Hi all,

    There have been some movements in other distros/projects about the openrc vs systemd init systems.

    As other users mentioned, a new project called Artix has been created, that will try to create a base distribution based on Arch or Manjaro (depending on the repositories you use).

    If I understood it, this will make arch-openrc and manjaro-openrc merge into this new Artix.

    First of all, we do not have the resources nor the man power to maintain an openrc version of Antergos, so we will not.

    Nevertheless, it seems that creating a “Community” edition based on Artix repositories and with an Openbox or LXQt DE wouldn’t be that difficult. We would be open to suggestions and collaborations.

    I would also like to know if there are enough users willing to use an openrc systemd-free Openbox Antergos. It could be another DE, Artix is using LXQt (but don’t expect a Gnome openrc version).

    Please, vote here!

    Thanks to all of you :grimacing:

  • I would install it in a VM, but wouldn’t commit to bare metal off the bat. I installed Gentoo with openrc on a VM to compare systemd vs openrc, but haven’t played around with it enough to form any opinions. While I have no programming experience, I might be able to offer some time and resources to help maintain openrc? I also use and love OB.

  • NO, I’m perfectly fine with a linux-based system

    It’s what you vote for and I would like to stay that way, for the moment. I am not reluctant to change, but as my father said, “if it is good do not touch it”

    https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=219892

    Autodidacta en la VIDA …y en Linux, también.

  • @triode13 thanks for your offer, if we do this in the end I’ll contact you.

    @judd This would not replace the systemd version, it’s just adding a new one. You’ll always be able to use the “normal” systemd version, do not worry.

  • @karasu said in Is Antergos openrc (nosystemd) really wanted or necessary?:

    @judd This would not replace the systemd version, it’s just adding a new one. You’ll always be able to use the “normal” systemd version, do not worry.

    I agree, thank you for clarifying it, and it will serve others as well.

    Autodidacta en la VIDA …y en Linux, también.

  • @karasu said in Is Antergos openrc (nosystemd) really wanted or necessary?:

    @triode13 thanks for your offer, if we do this in the end I’ll contact you.

    @judd This would not replace the systemd version, it’s just adding a new one. You’ll always be able to use the “normal” systemd version, do not worry.

    Sounds good! I would like to help in any way I can.

  • I remember the struggles with Gentoo back in the 90’s…
    I dont understand why anyone wants to go back…

    I make things work…
    My humble wiki: https://anotherlinux.com/

    • OpenRc admite la paralelización de procesos; es posible trabajar con más de un proceso a la vez. Como resultado, se consigue un ahorro de tiempo al inciar el sistema.
    • OpenRC puede utilizarse con otros kernels además de Linux, y admite el manejo de procesos mediante cgroups (Control Groups), una característica que permite el kernel Linux.
    • Openrc tiene compatibilidad con la plataforma BSD.
    • El codigo de Openrc esta escrito en lenguaje POSIX shell (+ C) (Lo que se traduce en mayor portabilidad), Systemd está escrito en C.
    • SystemD puede sustituir o eliminar determinados programas o procesos del sistema o incluso de otros programas. La filosofía KISS implica que un software debe ser lo más simple posible (en su propio funcionamiento), de tal forma que también será muy estable. Esto va en línea con la filosofía UNIX de que un software sirva para una única función.
    • SystemD funciona con el kernel Linux, y punto. No es compatible con otros kernels.
    • SystemD está muy atado a funcionar con glibc , resultando incompatible con otras librerías.
    • Openrc no depende de D-bus.
    • SystemD está absorbiendo cada vez más funciones, procesos y demonios. Por ejemplo, el control de energía, manejo de puntos de montaje, encriptación de discos, configuración de red, etc.
    • Todos los programas que necesiten a udev como dependencia, ahora también dependen de Systemd.
    • SystemD maneja journal mediante código binario fácilmente corruptible, además de otras problemáticas.
    • SystemD como el programa es cada vez más complejo, adquiere cada vez más código que puede hacerle fallar y colapsar. Por ejemplo, que por fallar udev colapse SystemD, y por tanto también el sistema entero. De igual forma es cada vez más difícil o complejo poder revisar el programa para pulirlo y detectar deficiencias.
    • El objetivo de SystemD es eliminar “diferencias sin sentido entre distribuciones”. Esto es repulsivo para muchas personas que precisamente, si hay algo que amamos del software libre en general y de GNU y Linux en particular, es que pueda modificarse tanto como sea necesario. No limitando la libertad del usuario y añadiendo numerosos puntos débiles que por sí mismos pueden colapsar el ordenador o incluso ser atacados por crackers.

    Aprendiendo que no es poco

  • I don’t understand Spanish…

    I make things work…
    My humble wiki: https://anotherlinux.com/

  • I vote for OpenRC bcause i like the way to go not only in one direction, and in this case it is an option which looks more minimal! So givin it a try is worth a try!

    [updates once a week] = [90% less problems]
    [Li{u}n//u//{i}x] since 1988 - overcoming failure means success
    howto-install-antergos
    how to add system logs
    i3-wm#gnome-shell

  • This post is deleted!
  • @joekamprad said in Is Antergos openrc (nosystemd) really wanted or necessary?:

    So givin it a try is worth a try!

    I would echo @joekamprad’s words here. I think it would definitely be worth a try:grinning:. And, it seems like a great additions to the already numerous options for Antergos. Isn’t diversity and the vast array of choices one of Linux’s most prized features? OpenRC would help give just that. In addition, I kind of feel like if Manjaro has a good, working version of it, Antergos deserves the same. To accomplish this, I am not afraid of stepping out and helping where and when I can. Even if it is such a simple thing as testing it out. Whatever I can help with, I am available for anyone working on this project.

    Keep trying, never give up. In the end, you will find that it was all worth it

    Community ISO: https://antergoscommunityeditions.wordpress.com
    Linux Basics: https://linuxbasicssite.wordpress.com

  • Are there any BIG technical advantages to it (without opening up a can of worms)? I do get that systemd is a basically svhost on linux which bothers me a little however is OpenRC overall more simple to use or anything?

    Sys01: Antergos + Mate; GTX 1070 + nvidia package :)
    Sys02: Antergos + Mate on Surface Pro 3

  • @Keegan said in Is Antergos openrc (nosystemd) really wanted or necessary?:

    In addition, I kind of feel like if Manjaro has a good, working version of it, Antergos deserves the same

    Manjaro is dropping its OpenRC version. It’s maintainers are going to join Artix (afaik).

    My main concern is that creating this OpenRC version could be a waste of our time if nearly nobody uses it in the end.

  • @karasu said in Is Antergos openrc (nosystemd) really wanted or necessary?:

    My main concern is that creating this OpenRC version could be a waste of our time if nearly nobody uses it in the end.

    Personally I think, that you developers already have enough work so that antergos is in this good way, besides they have a life :)

    Conclusion: there is more time than life, do not you think so ???

    Autodidacta en la VIDA …y en Linux, también.

  • interesting thoughts about systemd:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/4lzxs3/why_did_archlinux_embrace_systemd/

    [updates once a week] = [90% less problems]
    [Li{u}n//u//{i}x] since 1988 - overcoming failure means success
    howto-install-antergos
    how to add system logs
    i3-wm#gnome-shell

  • @joekamprad said in Is Antergos openrc (nosystemd) really wanted or necessary?:

    interesting thoughts about systemd:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/4lzxs3/why_did_archlinux_embrace_systemd/

    They beat Linus Tordvald too …

    …The previous system was a random assortment of shell scripts gluing together random hacky programs with various levels of support/quality/activity. I can’t realistically see any ‘imperfect’, ‘impure’ architecture that doesn’t meet some ideological guidelines for software development being worse that that.
    It’s not portable to other OSes, but other OSes like FreeBSD are building their own init systems anyway. And Sysvinit script weren’t even portable across distros.
    Others are personal attacks on Pottering being arrogant, it being controlled by Redhat and such (if it was a major issue, people can fork), I don’t know or deal with the guy. On the other hand Linus is dropping the fbomb, flipping of companies and ripping into volunteering coders trying to help with the excuse that hes Finnish and therefore entitled to be a bit of a dick.
    Worried about Binary logging format corrupting and being hard to read? A majority of people don’t care and rarely need to check logs, it’s only sysadmins that are effected. And they can switch to syslog-ng if they want.

    Autodidacta en la VIDA …y en Linux, también.

  • El “movimiento” anti-SystemD lejos de disminuir en los últimos años ha aumentado (se puede comprobar en internet y en los grupos de Telegram). Y es bastante radical en sus opiniones, tengan razón o no en las críticas a SystemD.
    Se puede prescindir de algunos escritorios en las .iso de Antergos (que luego se pueden descargar e instalar sencillamente como segundos escritorios) pero actualizar a OpenRC ya es un asunto mucho más serio y complicado. La línea de corte es más profunda y las distribuciones sin una versión alternativa a SystemD serán descartadas por algunos usuarios.

    Aprendiendo que no es poco

  • I don’t want to go offtopic BUT why not start adding linux-libre kernel to repos, and as optional in the installer? https://www.parabola.nu/packages/?sort=&q=linux-libre&maintainer=&flagged=
    It seems was droped from AUR now…
    Just disconsider it if you think is “so offtopic”

    Antergos (default OS) - WIN10 (abandoned)
    I3wm - Mate desktop
    AMD - A4 7300 Radeon graphics
    16 GB ram
    HD 1 TB
    Linux newbie since 06/2016

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