• Are y'all going to chase me off for a question you don't like?


    Evidently the arch way is their way or the highway.

    I installed arch w/ no help. It was a big headache.

    After I got a root shell w/ wifi on my lappy I asked for suggestions on building a custom DE.

    I Iike to build custom stuff and in the process I will break stuff from time to time.

    I hadn’t even started building the DE yet. I just asked for some suggestions on which direction to go, made it clear I wasn’t looking for anyone to do it for me and that I would only ask for a suggestion or a little help from time to time and expected no hand holding.

    And I was summarily pretty much kicked out of the forum. (My one and only post besides the “newbie hello”, in the appropriate section, was moved to “topics going nowhere”; which is not even indexed on their own web site nor discoverable from the web.) The reason I was given for being chased off is that “the rules are there to protect you from yourself and to stop us from having any headaches with your silly nonsense.” OK, part two is on them; whatever. But *nix is about freedom and responsibility; including the freedom to blow up my machine and the responsibility to fix it if I do.

    Antergos’ motto is “Your linux” for “everyone”.

    Well, my linux is super-duper, deep level customized.

    So if I install Antergos and then start asking how to intentionally “break” stuff (like installing blackpac to break dep chains and achieving the functional equivalent of negative pinning and mark hold) with the full understanding that if I make a mess it will be my responsibility to fix it are you going to put me in the corner like a bad kid and refuse to even speak to me?

  • Shall we start kicking before you ask your first question? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

    Just joking. The question is if anybody will have an answer for you. The Antergos Forum is generally a friendly and willing bunch of people. But, we do not always have an answer. Just toss your questions, and see what comes up.

    Never to old to learn.

  • I dont get the point of this topic - what were you trying to achieve with this other than just starting an argument? Seriously, dont get it.
    This forum is place with friendly people, articulate your problem in understandable way and someone will answer it. Thats for sure

  • @Steven_G
    I have to agree with what @axioma said regarding that we do not always have answers.
    Here’s a case in point.
    At one time somewhere in this forum, someone came and asked a question.
    I tried to help; however, the OP got overly anxious and upset with the fact that his question to his problem wasn’t answered ‘fast enough’.
    Well, truth be told, I, like pretty much everyone here, volunteers their time.
    I don’t get paid to be here.
    Just like yourself and others here, I also have a life.
    I asked said OP to accept the fact that we’re all volunteers here and not be overly anxious with the fact that an answer wasn’t given quickly enough to his/her satisfaction.
    Finally he/she/it calmed down a bit.
    If memory serves me correctly, I was one of the few person’s that tried to help (unfortunately, the OP didn’t get his/her/it’s problem resolved satisfactorily).
    Finally, in an act of defiance and complete “pissed - offed’ness” the OP and someone else came to that thread and said they got no help at all.
    Blamed me and others in that thread, including pretty much the whole board that they got no help (or something akin to that).

    If there isn’t an answer to your post (sometimes you’ll also see other posts that remain unanswered as well), it’s probably because some of us are eating, paying bills, doing work, driving kids from school, going to appointments, etc…in other words, we’re living our lives.
    We not on this board 24/7.
    And I think that at times, simple things like that are forgotten by new users.
    They expect an answer ‘right away!’

    So if you do post, please bear in mind that we can try to help, you may or may not get an answer, and if the answer doesn’t help, it’s the fault of our knowledge base.
    Not of us ‘per se’.
    In other words, we may not know everything but we’ll try.
    But please don’t blame us ‘per se’ or the board / community as a whole.
    That’s all. :)

    And Happy Antergos!!

    PS: I had to move this topic to a forum area more suitable for this discussion to take place.

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  • The move is cool. I’m actually rather laid back. And the point is that I’m looking for a new place to land and still have not found it.

    And if nobody knows or has the time to help, then nobody knows or has the time to help. At that point I bang my head against it until I figure it out, I give up or my wife makes me drop it.

    I’ve been building custom stuff for a long time. I was tinkering with memory management in DOS so I could run Ultima 1 on my neighbor’s 5150. The only default installs I have ever done were at work. I know all the stuff y’all are talking about. I’ve gotten that over the years when trying to help people. But, I’m talking about a whole other animal here. Something I’ve never run in to in my 35 years of tinkering. And since you guys are building on arch I want to make sure this is not something that is carried over in to antergos.

    So, any way, I have a lot of security concerns about the general state of the linux desktop at the moment.

    I’m an old time builder from way back. But my skills are limited in some areas. I couldn’t write a DE from scratch to save my life. I liken it to playing with legos. Give me a set of building blocks and I can come up with some really cool stuff. Kind of like rebuilding a junker in to a hotrod. But I cannot build individual legos or a carburetor from scratch. Sell me a carb and I can tune it for max performance.

    And yes, I’m being analogous and vague; intentionally.

    My security concerns are being addressed by very skilled people who are way, way beyond my skill level. Things like the move away from x towards wayland. And while things are headed in that direction they are not quite there yet.

    My concerns also involve a plethora of other issues, rolling vs frozen, having to rebuild from dead scratch or risk an upgrade explosion when a version stops getting security updates, etc, etc.

    So I hunted, read, played, tried, experimented and finally chose to land with arch.

    I went to the newbie corner and said hi. Then I spent a couple of weeks howling at the moon and asking no one but the googles for help and finally figured out how to get to a root shell with wifi on my lappy.

    After I was up and running a shell I started a thread about where to go next.

    Some of the things I’m looking at is building a highly customized version of the gnome DE without any of the media codec crud to not be vulnerable to things like directory traversal in to media handler attacks with firefox being sandboxed in a flatpack to hit the web directly from the hardware only in emergencies when I get ultra-stuck and 99.9% of everyday stuff being confined to compartmentalized VMs (banking, media, websurfing, etc, etc ).

    But a lot of that will depend on whether or not the VM input capture issues in wayland have been resolved in 3.24 in general for any VM package provider or even just in boxes; which I still haven’t found an answer to yet.

    And if I can’t pull off that general idea with the current state of DE components then I’m thinking of bootstrapping in to a xen install, running a cli dom0 and a bunch of specific purpose domU’s.

    This was an ongoing convo. I was just looking for some ideas, feedback, stuff I missed, suggestions, etc before deciding which way to go. There were maybe 20 posts or less total? Being familiar with the deb branch I started asking about how to do things similar to negative pinning or creating dummy metapackages to start breaking deps so I could start building what I want.

    And I was flat out told, point blank, straight up, almost word for word by a mod that they will not help me at all, ever, in any way shape or form if I try to do anything the least bit custom with package dep structures and when it breaks my system I had better undo every single bit of custom stuff before I dared to ask anybody for any kind of help on their forums.

    So I was like (paraphrasing and shortening but capturing the important stuff) “Wow, did I land in the wrong place? I thought the whole point of being on the edge was to do cool stuff and sometimes we get stuck and when we do get stuck we help each other if we can. I don’t expect a free ride. I’ll give back when and where I can. But, before I spend several hundred hours learning the guts of arch over the next six months I need to know if you guys are going to tell me to go jump in the lake anytime I try some new mod and need a suggestion?”

    To which I was told basically (paraphrasing and shortening but capturing the important stuff): We don’t need you around here. We have rules in place about how you can and cannot use our software to protect you from your own stupidity; like nothing but what we determine to be a “full upgrade” will ever be supported in any way shape or form. Not only will we not provided support we won’t even give pointers or suggestions. So, if you’re unwilling or unable to use our software our way then never, ever ask us for help and don’t even bother coming back to the forums again. (Now, to be fair, a lot of that was not typed directly in to a reply but was made very clear by a combination of what was said and actions like moving my thread to an un-indexed limbo that cannot be found anywhere. Go ahead and search for “arch topics going nowhere”. It’s referenced lots of places, but I can’t find it in any index any where.)

    So, I’m on the hunt for a place to land again. And before I install anybody’s base this time I’m asking around before I go through the trouble of installing and starting down a new path once again: If I ask how to do something that violates your rules of how to use your software (and no I don’t mean bad stuff like cracking, but good stuff like modding being treated as some kind of “violation”) are you going to tell me to hit the road and never dare show my face around here again until I come to my senses and realize that you know more than me and are just protecting me from my own stupidity and saving your valuable time and ultimate wisdom for those who have enough sense to never stray from the path that you have laid out for them in your all knowing benevolent dictatorship.

    Cuz if the answer to that question is yes then move me to the un-indexed limbo forum and I’ll go hunting again.

    And no, I’m not trying to pick a fight, start a flame war, step on toes or hurt feelings. This is a genuine concern for me after what just happened over at arch. I’m looking for a new community where I can hang out, learn, grow, help others, get help and figure out how to address my security concerns in such a way as to never have to do a full rebuild from dead scratch again until my lappy is so old it can’t be rebuilt anymore. And if that means that I wanna cross a duck with a monster truck then I don’t want to get kicked out of the club just for daring to ask if that’s even possible.

    Edited for clarity, context and typos (hopefully I got all of them)

  • @Steven_G

    With all respects to you, I really did enjoy reading your blog post above. In a good way though.
    I don’t know what to tell you. Ask the devs?

    Download " antergos-wallpapers-extra " and enjoy community sponsored wallpapers.

    Use the "Linux Beginner Search Engine"

    https://cse.google.com/cse/home?cx=017607476515012185699:b_owgx6xyi0

  • @Steven_G said in Are y'all going to chase me off for a question you don't like?:

    And I was flat out told, point blank, straight up, almost word for word by a mod that they will not help me at all, ever, in any way shape or form if I try to do anything the least bit custom with package dep structures and when it breaks my system I had better undo every single bit of custom stuff before I dared to ask anybody for any kind of help on their forums.

    We won’t say we won’t help you, but bear in mind that if you customize your system you must first know what you’re doing, because helping you remotely without knowing exactly what you have done it’s going to be impossible.

    I feel that you should first get Antergos installed and just try to get used to it as it is. Install and setup services you need… add/remove packages… and so on. You’ll have time to learn to modify the inners of the system later.

    Oh, and if you have nice ideas please share them, it could be that we’d find them interesting and decide to add them to the system.

    Welcome!

  • Cool.

    Thanks for the encouragement.

    I’m more than glad to share. And feel free to use whatever you like. None of anything I ever do is truly “original” work in the sense that I’m not writing fresh code. I’m just finding new and interesting ways to combine and configure existing code.

    But, as much as I don’t mind sharing I don’t think you guys will be interested in implementing anything I come up with. My systems are not for the faint of heart. My wife is a standard end user and even when I lighten things up a bit to make her life a little easier my systems still drive her nuts. And that’s just the security-lite versions I put together for her to not make her life too hard. She hates even trying to touch my system at all. Like if I’m working on hers and she needs the web for something she’ll just wait until I’m done rather than try to use my system.

    The last time I did any coding ABASIC was a big thing. But, I know how to find people that do good work and then incorporate their work in a whole new way. I’ve done some really neat stuff with my version of firefox. Of course it’s so locked down that it would drive any normal humans nuts to try to operate it.

    OTOH I don’t see how everybody else can deal with all of the crud that is constantly popping up on their systems. My wife has a W10 system and no “real” / sensitive info is even allowed to go on it. There are so many holes in it that it’s crazy; everything from bad guys being able to directly parse the atom tables to MS thinking a backdoor ad channel in an OS is a good idea!

    TL;DR, if you’re in to paranoid security I’ve got pointers out the wazoo and am glad to help. But “hard” systems are “hard” to use and require effort; which turns most people off.

    I’ve got a project on my plate right now. But next week I’m going to install the antergos shell and start building.

    Thanks for all of your hard work and the encouragement.

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