• Why Keep Reinventing the Wheel?


    It is my opinion (and my opinion only) that the Cnchi installer isn’t any good. I have had a great deal of trouble with it. I currently have Antergos installed on three (3) computers (each with only one hard drive or SSD)and I had to install Antregos at least three times on each before the OS would “take.”

    This, to me, is very poor.

    I wanted to install Antergos on a fourth computer but, even though it appeared that the OS was installed, the computer would not boot up. On this computer (after having tried six times to install Antergos), I just gave up and installed Manjaro (which installed perfectly the first time and currently works perfectly).

    Cnchi is labeled as “beta.” It has been so labeled since I started using Antergos about a year and a half ago.

    Why not just abandon Cnchi instead of trying to reinvent the wheel? Calamares and similar installers based on it as well as installers which feature GParted are readily available. I believe that Antergos should switch over to one of these installers.

    I have seen numerous complaints about installation of Antergos, most of the problems involving Cnchi. This, again in my opinion, should tell the Antergos developers something.

    I know that there have been many posts on this subject previously but I wanted to add my “two cents” to this forum. I LIKE Antergos. I think that it is the very best GNU/Linux distribution currently available. If the installer were reliable and easy to use (especially on computers with UEFI and Secure Boot [with that enabled or disabled] and with more than one hard drive), I feel that Antergos would be the “perfect” operating system - at least as “perfect” as possible.

    I apologize if I have offended anyone or any of the developers; that is certainly not my intention.

    I hope that the developers will at least consider my suggestion to abandon Cnchi in favor of one of the more readily useful installers.

    Thank you for considering my opinions.

    Lawrence

  • since antergos doesn’t actually host any packages and completely relies on arch repos and AUR, i think they have the need to create something that doesn’t need creating only to be included in the fabrication process.
    manjaro does the same with their installer and custom grub that totally sucks
    try all you may to suggest something else and cinchi developers would mark you as a witch and burn you at the stake for blaspheming against their “precious”

  • Talk about this at github:
    https://github.com/Antergos/Cnchi/issues/904

    @lhb1142 in your point of view (from a user with a bad experience on installing Antergos) it seems legit to blame cnchi for this, and praise calamares as it do install another system without this issues.

    From the point of view at development and mainaining side the view is different, as they must think about the code you are using as “gui”.

    most of the problems involving Cnchi

    involving… yes… but lota problems are not directly caused by cnchi itself, and are more related to the nature of fast changing stuff on a rolling release.

    In my point of view i can say what i feel sayin 1000 times:

    • Antergos is a freetime project and is mainly developed by not more then 3 Developers in their spare time.

    • If Antergos Project would get more developers helping on tracking down issues, and would get more donations in, to pay devs for their work, they would have more time to track down issues as they rising.

    Cnchi is an easy to use stable installer, allowing many different ways to config system, and allow to install a bunch different desktop environments.

    If someone would start to develop and maintain a calamares installer developers would be happy to implement this in one way or another.

  • *@joekamprad said in Why Keep Reinventing the Wheel?:

    Talk about this at github:
    https://github.com/Antergos/Cnchi/issues/904

    @lhb1142 in your point of view (from a user with a bad experience on installing Antergos) it seems legit to blame cnchi for this, and praise calamares as it do install another system without this issues.

    From the point of view at development and mainaining side the view is different, as they must think about the code you are using as “gui”.

    most of the problems involving Cnchi

    involving… yes… but lota problems are not directly caused by cnchi itself, and are more related to the nature of fast changing stuff on a rolling release.

    In my point of view i can say what i feel sayin 1000 times:

    • Antergos is a freetime project and is mainly developed by not more then 3 Developers in their spare time.

    • If Antergos Project would get more developers helping on tracking down issues, and would get more donations in, to pay devs for their work, they would have more time to track down issues as they rising.

    Cnchi is an easy to use stable installer, allowing many different ways to config system, and allow to install a bunch different desktop environments.

    If someone would start to develop and maintain a calamares installer developers would be happy to implement this in one way or another.*

    I wish I had the knowledge to be able to help the developers. But unfortunately I am an older man who has never had a computer lesson in his life. (We never had such things when I was young!) I have taught myself everything I know about using a computer and the programs within whatever operating system I am using but I do not know how to create or maintain such programs. I’m afraid that, at this point in my life, such knowledge is “beyond” me.

    That said, it does seem to me that, as there are few people actively developing Antergos, it would serve them and the community better if they went with an installer which has been proven reliable. I myself have used Calamares to install several different GNU/Linux OSes and I have never had even a small problem with it.

    In my experience Calamares just works.

    I was able to install Manjaro to my Alienware AW17R3 (originally a Windows gaming computer with two drives - a 256 GB SSD and a 1 TB hard drive) with absolutely no problems; I have UEFI activated and Secure Boot inactivated on this computer. Manjaro installed on the first try - and that was after six (6) attempts to install Antergos (varying some of the settings within the BIOS).

    Manjaro is a fine Arch “clone” but I really prefer Antergos (when I can get it installed!!!).

    (I was formerly a “distro-hopper” but now I have settled on Antergos as my main OS with Manjaro being used on my Alienware computer because I cannot install Antergos to it no matter what I have tried. I do have to say that I also like MX Linux as far as “fixed” releases go. But in general I prefer a “rolling” release type, specifically Antergos.)

    I believe that I am not the only person who has problems with Cnchi. Even on the three other computers on which I have Antergos installed (they all have only one hard drive and only one of them has UEFI/Secure Boot), it took at least three (3) attempts to install the OS before Cnchi would effect the installation properly.

    Cnchi is indeed easy to use - but, again in my experience, it just doesn’t work properly as, once the OS appears to be installed, the computer will not boot. Why else will Manjaro will install to my Alienward computer when Antergos will not?

    Of course, once installed, Antergos is just great - there is no other word for it.

    But, as Cnchi remains in “beta,” and I and at least some other people have had problems with it, wouldn’t it be better to just abandon it and switch over to Calamares?

    I think so.

    At that point, Cnchi would be one less thing for the developers to worry about.

    I do thank everyone who has read my posts and has at least considered my opinion.

    Lawrence

  • Antergos is build around Chnci, it is before Calamares. Personal, its not a re-invent a wheel. Because it didnt copied or reinvented from something…

    Manjaro and Cinnarch/antergos started both from Cli installer, While Antergos developed there own installer, Manjaro forked an installer from LMDE.

    Since that installer not supporting uefi, they decide to Fork the chnci installer and call it Thus…while chnci is a network installer thus is a offline installer… but later on some idea landen by an developer that started calamares also worked with manjaro dev… that installer rappidly growth popular…

    But antergos stil on there own Chnci… Personal its Antergos pride, is not exactly re-invention… while manjaro have made some steps on different installers Antergos keeped there own… how things installed can be pretty subjective… personal had no issues with it, my only issue is the Webkit greeter, mostly i reinstall with something else… thats further my thing… =-)

    i see no reason to switch over to calamares…Personal what you create you should use with pride…

  • @lhb1142 ::: start watching it from both sides, userside and developers side.

    What is your thinking about the points from my answear you do not commenting? 😉

    involving… yes… but lota problems are not directly caused by cnchi itself, and are more related to the nature of fast changing stuff on a rolling release.

    From the point of view at development and mainaining side the view is different, as they must think about the code you are using as “gui”.

    I am also not that smart to really get into development, but i do my best to help at the forum. I also do not have the money to donate regularly, so i decide to put my human power to pay back what i got from Antergos.

    On Linux and projects offered free to use, we need a culture of respect and donation, as nothing is without a bill in the today world.

  • *@joekamprad said in Why Keep Reinventing the Wheel?:

    @lhb1142 ::: start watching it from both sides, userside and developers side.

    joekamprad

    What is your thinking about the points from my answear you do not commenting? 😉

    involving… yes… but lota problems are not directly caused by cnchi itself, and are more related to the nature of fast changing stuff on a rolling release.

    From the point of view at development and mainaining side the view is different, as they must think about the code you are using as “gui”.

    I am also not that smart to really get into development, but i do my best to help at the forum. I also do not have the money to donate regularly, so i decide to put my human power to pay back what i got from Antergos.

    On Linux and projects offered free to use, we need a culture of respect and donation, as nothing is without a bill in the today world.*

    *ringo32

    Antergos is build around Chnci, it is before Calamares. Personal, its not a re-invent a wheel. Because it didnt copied or reinvented from something…

    Manjaro and Cinnarch/antergos started both from Cli installer, While Antergos developed there own installer, Manjaro forked an installer from LMDE.

    Since that installer not supporting uefi, they decide to Fork the chnci installer and call it Thus…while chnci is a network installer thus is a offline installer… but later on some idea landen by an developer that started calamares also worked with manjaro dev… that installer rappidly growth popular…

    But antergos stil on there own Chnci… Personal its Antergos pride, is not exactly re-invention… while manjaro have made some steps on different installers Antergos keeped there own… how things installed can be pretty subjective… personal had no issues with it, my only issue is the Webkit greeter, mostly i reinstall with something else… thats further my thing… =-)

    i see no reason to switch over to calamares…Personal what you create you should use with pride…*

    I am responding to both individuals. I completely understand your points of view but I have to say the following:

    I CANNOT install Antergos onto my Alienware AW17R3-7092SLV 17.3" FHD Laptop (6th Generation Intel Core i7, 16 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD + 1 TB HDD) NVIDIA GeForce GTX980M computer (even after six tries) but I CAN (and did) install Manjaro onto it.

    I even had trouble installing Antergos onto three other computers though, in the end, I finally got the OS installed.

    In my opinion, just as an ordinary computer user, this situation is not good.

    It is apparent to me that the installation problem is solely with Cnchi. I’m afraid that nothing anyone can say can change my opinion of that, at least at the present time.

    Others have had similar problems. This bodes poorly for Antergos. If you can’t install it, you can’t use it!

    I do like Antergos better than Manjaro but for now I am “stuck” with Manjaro on that Alienware computer (though “stuck” is not a good term; actually Manjaro is not a bad OS - it’s just that I like Antergos more).

    I would like to see Cnchi abandoned in favor of Calamares or, if that is not possible, then Cnchi MUST be fixed so that ordinary people can install Antergos easily and reliably.

  • @lhb1142
    The devs are fixing it and there’s also an offline installer in the pipeline. Just be patient, because of the number of developers.
    I’m not sure, but I think an offline installer like Calamares would bring complications in the way Antergos offers the various DE’s during install and that is the feature that makes Antergos unique. I can imagine that the size of the ISO would be too large. Just take a look at Opensuse’s ISO that’s 4,7 GB and they “only” offer three DE’s (Gnome, XFCE and KDE) Imagine how big Antergos ISO would be, that can also be off putting for new users.
    I’m not saying that your experiences are rare, you’re right there are users who have that experience, but you can’t blame the devs for trying to make Cnchi better after all that work they’ve put into it.
    There are also a lot of users where Cnchi sails smooth, so they’re not totally in the wrong with it.
    I don’t know if @fernandomaroto still is active on Antergos, but he had an offline installer that worked, only concentrating on XFCE and i3, but once installed you can install another DE if you like and deinstall XFCE.

  • i have to say one thing which is extremely pro “manjaro installer” over antergos

    it does the job offline!!!

    and never fails

  • @lhb1142 said in Why Keep Reinventing the Wheel?:

    It is apparent to me that the installation problem is solely with Cnchi. I’m afraid that nothing anyone can say can change my opinion of that, at least at the present time.

    Then discussion is at a zero point for me here.

    If you can provide logs from that failed installs, we could solve the issue, and this would make Antergos better working for you and others with similar hardware or similar installation wishes.

    https://antergos.com/wiki/miscellaneous/how-do-i-include-system-logs-when-asking-for-help/

    Community driven Distribution works by contributions and reports from the community to development and v.v.

  • @AstralMystic said in Why Keep Reinventing the Wheel?:

    i have to say one thing which is extremely pro “manjaro installer” over antergos

    it does the job offline!!!

    and never fails

    I have not tried to install Manjaro recently but a year ago its installer did freeze on my laptop because the wifi connection was not (yet) configured in Manjaro live. So, I would say that when it comes to installers (linux distro and windows alike) the devil often lies in the hardware & scripts details. For instance, I did re-install Windows on my laptop after installing Antergos because win10 UEFI partition was altered by Cnchi (not sure how as I don’t have that knowledge, but that also happened on another PC) but to do so I had to remove temporarily all disks except the win10 target. Everything being equal hardwarewise, Manjaro installation is smoother compared to Antergos which, among other things, does not dual boot as neatly and, in some cases, struggles with partitioning (e.g. unable to install it on a SATA M2 SSD on a Ryzen computer).

    Having said so there is light at the end of the tunnel! A year ago Antergos installer would crash from the start in all computers I had (I7 6th gen, previous gen. AMD CPU etc…) compared to recently 4 successful installations, which highlights the considerable debugging job already done to cnchi.

    However there were/are still some homework/workaround to do:

    • for instance I had to use an external DVD twice because the antergos ISO on an USB stick would not start. If you look at this link in arch-wiki using UNetbootin is not recommended to create a bootable arch installation USB. It’s slower but sometimes safer to do so.
    • (Too) many times the install fails at the partitioning stage of the install process, hence the need to do it beforehand with Gparted. That is not always rocket science especially if one has a working install of antergos to use as a partitioning template.

    Hope that helps & puts things into perspective ☺

  • *****@joekamprad said in Why Keep Reinventing the Wheel?:

    @lhb1142 said in Why Keep Reinventing the Wheel?:

    It is apparent to me that the installation problem is solely with Cnchi. I’m afraid that nothing anyone can say can change my opinion of that, at least at the present time.

    Then discussion is at a zero point for me here.

    If you can provide logs from that failed installs, we could solve the issue, and this would make Antergos better working for you and others with similar hardware or similar installation wishes.

    https://antergos.com/wiki/miscellaneous/how-do-i-include-system-logs-when-asking-for-help/

    Community driven Distribution works by contributions and reports from the community to development and v.v.*****

    Dear Sir:

    I definitely do not want to be obtuse. Unfortunately I have no way of supplying logs of the failed installations because I now have Manjaro installed on that Alienware computer I mentioned.

    On the three other computers on which I have Antergos installed, I wouldn’t even know how to get logs of the failed installation attempts that I had prior to (finally) getting Antergos installed successfully.

    One of the things I think that MAY be causing problems with partitioning (and on computers with two hard drives) is that, where Calamares gives the opportunity to select (for example) boot/efi and esp or /Home + esp on computers with UEFI and or Secure Boot, Cnchi doesn’t appear to offer that option. Maybe that’s causing a problem though I still do not understand why Cnchi wouldn’t install Antergos on an older 64-bit computer with only one hard drive and no UEFI/Secure Boot. At least it wouldn’t install on the first two tries. Then I finally got it installed.

    I can only say that Calamares has never failed, at least in my experience.

    If you’re going to stick with Cnchi, I do hope that you can make it reliable so that it is relatively easy to install on newer computers, especially those with more than one drive.

    If Antergos is to be as successful as it should be, it has to be easy for general users (such as myself) to install.

    Thank you for considering my opinions.

  • @lhb1142 Antergos , as it is relative to Archlinux itself is not Ubuntu not Manjaro and not Windows.
    You will need to dig into Linux to make use of it.

    Here at the forum for sure you will find posts where users failed to install, because if install went fine they do not ask at the forum.

    There is a need to change some stuff inside install process, and it will be there allways, as system is changing every day… There was problems with cnchi lately, and it was causing failed installs… but Manjaro also failed to install: https://forum.manjaro.org/search?q=install failed

    at this level, the discussion does not work.

    thesis - antithesis - synthesis

    and i do not see you are willing to get in to synthesis.

    "Can't discuss necessary facts. joekamprad can't continue."
    

    – closing –

    ** if you want to reopen this get me on chat.

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